That's some great balancing in the most recent patch! I can finally afford plant fiber buildings at a reasonable pace and the farm timers are looking good now. Also now that I had some time to fiddle with reworked genes - I can definitely say that new system is a massive improvement over old one.
And this is not the limit. It's too lazy to dig a pile of salt for a bronze cache. In general, as the person below already said, develop further and everything will be fine for you :)
Oh, you meant improving the quality :) You need to be more precise! :) My best result right now is two premium slots. 2 iron, 2*25 tin and 625 copper. I don't have enough stock for 125 tin yet. Very much not enough :)
Anyway, with bronze bar crafting taking 1h - I'm thinking about freezing Mine until it would be fixed.
First I need to stop progression and wait to accumulate granite for ~6 hours, but now after it I need to wait ~12 hours to craft bars just to return to the place where I was before prestige.
I always use crystals to do my crafting. It only costs 20 and they regenerate very fast. Also, there isn't much else to spend blue crystals on. So 20 for the best possible pick and only one of each ore used seems like a good deal to me.
And I am confused by the new balance in the village. The stock of faith has been significantly increased, but the income has been reduced. The final income is about the same. But there is one "but". The stock has grown significantly! This means that the income from cryolab has also grown, which is calculated from the absolute value, and not from the speed. Total right now I'm doing what. With a reserve of 115k of faith and an income of 3 per second, I have accumulated almost 500k of faith in 2.5 days. I'll wait another 3-4 days, I'll save up 1kk. The income of faith falls slightly when overflowing. With a million faith, by running cryostasis, I will have 0.29*1kk=290k faith per day or 290k/86400=3.36 faith per second. That is, a frozen village will bring me more faith than a fully developed one without overflow. O_o! At the same time, even the pathetic third level of cryostasis, which will be typed in less than a day, will passively give me 1kk * 0.03 /86400 = 0.34 faith per second. And after waiting a couple more days (with an income exceeding my maximum current, I remind you), I will catch up to the fourth level, having received a passive income of 0.46 faith per second.
It's a lot, don't you think? No, I'm not complaining, but it looks like some kind of exploit.
Alright status update. Faith gain in village seems to be rather close to what it was before. Considering that you now are closer to your cap instead of pushing way beyond it I would say a clear improvement on that front. Resource gain on the other hand is just as bad as it seemed. Which begs the question wether or not this matters when you can still prestige in roughly the same manner. I would say yes it feels significantly worse. Though I guess before that it might have actually been a little bit to fast, as I was often confronted with the opposite problem I have now, namely too many resources. So after some time playing the update I would say that the village rebalance was warranted in some way (as painful as that is too admit) though that it's overshoot it's goal by quite a bit. For village it might actually be plant gain exclusively. Plants are such a brutal bottleneck atm that most other recourse production doesn't really matter. I have the full collection for the 1.5 plants modifier and it still takes me 2 days to build up enough plants for the gardener. Which would take 3 days without that.
The pace in the mine seems better now. Even with 1 hour bronze bars. You have more time to actually explore the features.
I think the farm also improved on lots of things. Especially when it comes to building up crops for specific things like gold gain or rare materials. Though the time increase is overdone same as the village.
So my still rather early verdict for this update. The slowness for village and farm isn't nearly as bad as it first seemed, though it isn't in a good place either. Other features and changes are good to very good.
How to fix Farm: delete it from the game and start over taking inspiration from Ethereal Farm. In its current form this feature will never feel good to play because it is based on manual harvest cycles. It needs to be a lot more passive.
Hmm. 1.4.0 changed the amount of experience passively received by the farm. Right now I have 80/d written. The update was installed 10-12 hours ago. Now I look, the potato has 4 experiences. How is it? Yes, it says "up to this amount", but somehow 8-10, as for me, this is very much different from the stated 80. By an order of magnitude. And this is taking into account that I did not prestige the potatoes yesterday, which means that before the update, she received something passively.
The xp gain is reduced the longer the timer is and the higher the gold cost is (it also was same way before the patch). your max level with a crop is also a factor and it seems like that if your crop is at the highest level it has ever been - you don't get any passive xp whatsoever (or extremly little, idk). However if you just prestiged a crop - it actually does climb up a couple of levels at a pretty decent pace. So previously everything gained exp constantly at the same rate but at an absolute snail's pace. Now it's a catching up mechanic for prestiged crops so that you don't have to start from 0. Though it would be nice to see actual xp gain for any individual crop since they're so drastically different from the number in the lab.
The description does not say anything about changing the speed depending on the level of culture. Yes, it does not make sense, since the amount of experience needed for the level itself is growing very quickly, which in total will provide the same drop in speed that you describe. Nevertheless, I want to note that over the next approximately 15 hours, my potatoes received 6 experiences, and 8 in a day. That is, literally an order of magnitude less than stated.
Notice, I'm not saying this is wrong. I'm saying it's not clear. How can I plan something on this mechanics if it works so unpredictably? Gives an unknown amount of experience with such a wild spread in speed during the day.
Note that the cryolab mechanics themselves work very differently for each tab. The mine has no overflow of crystals, so the maximum value for it is constant. And a passive increase of 2-4 percent to the growth rate will be an increase of 2-4 percent to the speed. The village and the horde have overflow, so just waiting once, say, 10 times longer, we can significantly increase the increase in speed. 3-4 times, which is much nicer. Well, the farm works like this. Gives it is unclear how much, all in different ways and at different speeds during the day. I don't know what will happen with the fifth tab, I haven't opened it yet :) And as a result, a cryolab working so differently looks a little strange. I will not say what is wrong, rather it requires special attention.
Please don't balance or design the game around what the top 1% of speed/efficiency players do. The game felt like it had a great pace, to me, and now it's a slog. I don't care what the spread-sheet writing optimization maximizers do, they'll figure out new ways to push the envelope regardless but meanwhile the game is just categorically slower and less fun for me and a lot of other players.
I also feel like progression between players will vary greatly between the different tabs. 1) spend red gems 2) RNG of treasures, cards and events. I for example got a huge unexpected boost a while back with a tier 2 fully upgraded veggie gain treasure from the merchant. Just I was starting my long journey towards the next crop needing veggies. Unexpectedly more than trippling my veggie gain (at that time) and subsequently immensly speeding up my farm game.
Which is to say, progress between players can and will vary sometimes dramatically. Though this isn't a bad thing and still player driven. I would like the rng to be a bit more predictable though. Just tell me what I will get when I purchase something (hint: I do that anyway with a little savescum scrying). Just saying what you get next doesnt fundamentally change the game and adds a layer of strategy.
I feel like these two points have been overlooked in regards to balance.
Due to how slowly gems are generated two players who have bought different red gem upgrades but have otherwise identical set ups will have vastly different progression and will take a long time to catch up, if they ever do.
Then you add the random factor, and all of these make an impact on your speed. Card set ups completely change progression for an entire prestige; which treasures and how many will obviously changes progression again; what you're able to buy from the merchant/bank is random; the entire Halloween event was random; presumably the entire Christmas event will be random. Even progression in the mines (pickaxes), horde (heirlooms) and farm (gold/rare drops) are random.
There are too many variables to be able to balance around a hypothetical "typical" player.
My number 1 recommendation for any still being updated idle game - Please don't continue to update it in ways that drastically slow the game down. If you want more/longer term gameplay, add stuff on the back end rather than dragging out the front end. Coming online and seeing on Mining, I'm forever stuck halfway through an infinitely long cooldown because the rock became harder. My crops all have 10 times the grow time. Its already a struggle to pick between quick and long playthroughs but this is a devastating change.
My positive look at the new update - Farm Cards are cool. I like the cost increase for mining. It is sensible and I like how it effects your choices. Faith cap is a nice treat!
Alright, looking at this update with a closer lens makes it less bad. The key things to note are:
-Hordes didn't get changed
-The update for Mine was an upgrade (other than bar smelt time, although this shouldn't change too much), and should increase progression rate.
-Village is almost unaffected early-mid game as far as I can tell, and so this just encourages shorter resets to increase faith. Also faith production overall was increased, buffing this effect more. I think this one is a bit harsh for late-game production, but we don't know the reasons why it was reduced (No info on update log). Without knowing the reasons we can't judge how necessary it was. Although an explanation would be nice.
-All farm fertilizers now have the effect of Grow Time /2 and rare drop rates have increased. I think that the changes just make it so you don't use your sprinklers, and DNA gene upgrades with the buffs to gene bases should at the very least mostly compensate for the time increases. Also the 5min-30min grow times for crops didn't make sense for how the game works, and it should've been obvious it was going to be changed with a similar degree to Hordes. Also overgrow rework is nice, old system was a bit annoying
"How the game works"? I mean, its an active/idle game. Like Hordes has 20 second timers on some abilities, you play the active part to progress faster while the idle parts build up. Changing the game from actively playing daily to only being worth checking once a week or month is a HUGE change. Part of the reason I liked this game more than any other Idle game out there was it had a great balance of things to do while waiting for things to do, but now I've got nothing to do while waiting for EVERYTHING to do at once.
I don't understand the desire for the game to be even slower than it already is. I was at the point where prestiges were taking days, but you couldn't just leave it because you still needed to adjust things and buy upgrades. I was fine with that, for a "long term idle game" it meant I still needed to check every day, but it was pushing my limits. Now everything is slow and everything that boosts gain and speed is worse; it would appear that none of the costs have been updated to reflect the change in speed so progression has become outpaced by snails. I think I'm done
Allright, so I know there's gonna be a lot of kneejerk reactions, cause getting nerfed/losing progress doesn't ever feel great. Many changes might feel out of place, even though if things were how they are currently from the get go - people wouldn't mind (as much). And I know that it can be disheartening reading through all that criticism while trying to make the game you want to make and putting in work (and for free no less). But, maaaaan, I just really got to put my 2 cents.
I'd really like you to reconsider the grow timers for the farm. Village materials losing 20-30% production, smeltery timers changing to x5 value, treasures getting nerfed - all those feel annoying but ultimately it just means that I have to check in those tabs less often, which I guess is the intent. The timers on some crops mean that I can go on a drunken blender, wake up in a neighbour city with a kidney missing, take a humiliating bus ride home - and my rice still won't be ready for harvest. I felt like 30 hours was already pushing it, even with the prenerf sprinkler cutting it in half. 72 hours is just baffling: it isn't just regular idle anymore, it's retirement home dementia idle.
Don't take it the wrong way - I think your game is pretty neat, I like it. I just also like the lizard brain dopamine injection I get from numbers going up after opening the game tab after a long period of absence. I just consider that period to be in line of coming home after work or waking up or just doing somehing else for a couple of hours. Not 3 days.
I don't know how far you are in village, but that 20-30% reduction is only for the base production of them. There are later upgrades to production for a lot of materials that got hit super hard, meaning plant fiber/wood/stone production is somewhere around 10% of what it was pre patch in the later game. (each of those is boosted by two upgrades that got changed from being multiplicative with themselves to additive, and those upgrades got hit to something like 33% of their previous effectiveness at max level). My gold income took around a 38% hit. I don't remember what glass/metal/hardwood/gems were at pre patch, but those got hit pretty significantly too.
And late game (around tier 4 buildings unlocked) in village already had material storage ballooning much much much faster than material production. And buildings unlock that need those large material storages to build.
I was under the impression that base production is the same and upgrades changing from multiplicative to addictive is what results in declared production loss. Atleast if you hover over farmer it still says that he gives you 2 base plant fiber just like it used to before patch (I think). And the timer to fill to full capacity seem to be in line with those numbers. I did also lose a ton of gold gain but I assume it has to do with merchant treasures getting nerfed (I have 2 of those). But might be I'm completely wrong, I haven't checked it in great detail.
I was having fun with Gooboo before the 1.4.0 update - the pacing let me feel like I was making progress with each prestige, albeit gradually and slowly, but it was improving and speeding up little by little each time.
Unfortunately, the massive brakes put on progress in every main mechanic by update 1.4.0 have made the time gating so heavy and oppressive as to make the game feel - I'm not going to mince words here - boring, and unsatisfying.
Thanks for the time you've put into this, but I think I'm going to move on at this point.
I understand you generally prefer the game to be more idle oriented and not punish people for not being active players, but the changes really feel like they swing things so far the other way. Crops take so long to level up now and I already felt like the overgrowth mechanic was a good compromise to make the relatively active focused early crops not that bad if you just check in once or twice a day, increasing the growth times for carrots from 5 minutes to 90 without really decreasing the experience costs for leveling up the crops just feels incredibly punishing, and the ability to reach overgrowth achievements feels utterly impossible.
The village changes also feel incredibly bad, especially for plant fiber where it was already the slowest resource to accumulate. I personally went from 35k/sec to 9k/sec for it and that means it takes a full day for it to hit cap which is enough to build a single building. This feels so miserable when so many absolutely crucial buildings already require high plant fiber amounts, it slows down making any kind of progress on the feature to a snails pace. Where it was it felt like it was at least balanced around like ~8 hour check ins which felt like a really good spot, at least in my opinion.
Part of the problem is stone and wood get boosted by certain jobs that give another resource and just give a whole ton of stone or wood as a side effect. While if there's an equivalent for plant fiber it's unlocked much later (I see one that might be it, but it's still quite a bit away, and it also costs plant fiber to build, compounding the issue).
The reductions to other resources in village are pretty bad too. Basically every resource boosting upgrade got changed from multiplicative to additive, on top of base production of resources being lowered.
There's also a pretty significant difference between early village and later village. I'm at tier 5 buildings unlocked and before patch my resets were at around 3 days and getting longer. I think part of it is that the faith upgrades for resources are multiplicative on storage but additive on production, so village is bound to slow down with progress anyway.
Yeah I have the building and it does give plant fiber production, but the lack of an equivalent to the early game tunnel/sawmill and then the secondary resource producer being so much later and costing plant fiber is rough, especially since its a much higher base cost than lumberjack/deep mine means you need a lot of storage to even start building them.
Yeah. Its just a shame. The whole draw of this game was the incredible active/idle balance, which let you play at your own pace. You gained a little by being always on, but not that much more than idling. Now, there's essentially little point to playing more than once a month.
Yeah, on hopping on for the day here and seeing the changes, I'm also inclined to agree with the other folks posting comments, the latest update pushed this way beyond the level of slow play I'd be willing to put up with. The farm especially is at a level where I don't think I'd be able to stomach even thinking about trying to make progress in it as of right now, it's just far, far too slow at this point.
Have to agree with the other commenters. I am just very confused why you would make the game just slower, when it was slow anyways. Edit: To give a bit more balanced feedback. The change to for farms in general I understand, having a crop be done in 5 minutes seems a bit against the pace of the game. Though having to wait literal days for one to finish is really tough. I do like the change to how overgrow works a lot though. Makes it way more clear and you can harvest at any time and gain benefits.
I do not undestand why the village had to be slowed down at all. I liked the pace of it a lot. I prestiged about 1 every 2 days. Lots of things already took a lot of time. Especially because you are capped by your recource cap and the build time of certain buildings.
Mine seems just slower but that might be countered through higher prestige, not sure on that one yet. I do get the minimum requirement. Even though I often used only 1 in every metal and then use the best pickaxe button it feels better and fairer that I have to use some recources for it.
Overall some good features and changes with the heavy negative of everything being slower.
So, with the changes to village, I think I'm done. I was already at around 3 day resets before the changes absolutely gutting resource income.
I'm looking at 19 hours for plant fiber to hit cap right now at 1/3 of cap, when I think it should have hit cap overnight. So, are we expected to what, build like 1 building a day?
The rework to the farm feature, at first glance, hurts. It is turning me off the game, honestly. Other 1.4 updates straight up nerfing gains makes me similarly frustrated.
I am very much not a fan of changes like this that slow the game down and make checking in even more sluggish than the feature already was. I will see how I feel after using it a while. I was unsure of the horde rework but am a big fan of it now.
Having harvests go from less than an hour to daily without much of an increase in EXP makes level progress extremely slow, and carrots going from 5m to 1h 30m (a 180x increase!) means I can say goodbye to my plans to grind for the 7x overgrow for a long time.
Why do I have Hay Bales when I don't have grass or the currency to upgrade it (Seed Level 8)? Also Note #9 still references sprinklers being a 2x speed while they're now a 1.1x :)
So I think there's some minor RNG issues in the card system right now. I've opened 10 or so 'Old Memories 'packs, and the last 6 have had the exact same 2 cards. This is like less than a one in a million at this point, so something's up. I really want to finish my Hordes card collection, but can't because every time I pull the same two cards ('Mushroom Guide' and 'Sawblade Launcher' in case you're wondering). Is there any plan for a RNG patch coming up soon?
Also this is like my favorite incremental game by far, don't think I dislike the game. It's my current favorite, and I love the gameplay (Hordes especially, the rework was good long-term) I'd just like to know how to fix my card pack to contain more cards.
I have to admit I was skeptical about the horde rework at first, but after playing it for a while (75 max zone now), I'm really loving it! It's a lot more idle than the previous version while still being active enough to play in real time if you want, and the progression feels solid and fairly rapid (although there was a plateau for me in the 50s, unsure if that's been retouched).
Agreed, the new horde is way nicer. Items also feel more important and switching them up for certain zones or bosses is quite nice. Also if you dont mind me asking how does your progression on the other features look? I'm at mine: 100, Village: Just unlocked local government or I guess highest building amount of 464, Horde: 69, Farm: 40% towards Rice. Just curious how others are doing. And if for some reason others lack behind in the mine at least going from the values in the cryo lab.
I'm at mine 100, village max 369, horde 75, and farm 1% towards watermelon. I've spent most of my red gems on horde - the ancient power and ancient spirit upgrades are REALLY strong (basically 3x attack and 3x soul gain respectively).
You can always buy and sacrifice, but offerings don't add to storage until you've built the pedestal, and you can't sacrifice/upgrade a resource until you've bought the corresponding offering pedestal at least once.
Man, don't get me wrong, it does blow that this can happen - but this is precisely the reason why game keeps bugging you daily with notification to download backup.
What's wrong with the people of this village? :) Why do they store iron and gold in aquariums, and pour water into towers and obelisks? With this approach, they should live in warehouses and store wood in houses! However, they still live in the forges, so...
I think there might be a bug with the golden throne red gem upgrade for village. The multipliers for it go from 1 -> 1.5 -> 2 -> 3.5 -> 5.5 -> 8 -> 11, etc continuing in the pattern of incrementing the increase by .5x each upgrade thereafter. The only reason I think theres a bug is it seems like the second upgrade should take it from 1.5 to 2.5 given the pattern all the rest of the numbers have. It seems to skip over incrementing by 1 instead incrementing by .5 twice before going straight to 1.5.
The golden throne upgrade used to start at the x2 gold upgrade, and the 1.5x gold upgrade was put it at some point (along with some other cheaper upgrades) to be something for people to buy earlier with red gems.
Unfortunately, none of the costs of the original upgrades got reduced any, so although getting some benefit earlier is nice, it also just meant that someone buying to that upgrade power later has to spend more red gems overall.
So, I bought 3 treasures since returning to the game, and all 3 were a tier 2 treasure giving a bonus to grain gain. Either there's something wrong with the rng seed saving or I just got what I think is a ridiculously unlikely result.
It's a lot easier to get lots of heirlooms now; I started hitting level 60 a few days ago and I already have 38 of those, giving me +1.14 flesh/s. It's really pretty good and grows decently fast.
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That's some great balancing in the most recent patch! I can finally afford plant fiber buildings at a reasonable pace and the farm timers are looking good now. Also now that I had some time to fiddle with reworked genes - I can definitely say that new system is a massive improvement over old one.
Thank you for the quick adjustments from the last update.
Does anybody know how to upgrade capacity for Tin ore ??
maybe you need to get in to deeper floor to unlock new upgrade
And this is not the limit. It's too lazy to dig a pile of salt for a bronze cache. In general, as the person below already said, develop further and everything will be fine for you :)
i can not figure out how to get my pickaxe crafting to reach the minimum purity
You need at least a 0.1% success chance to craft now. If you can’t get this even at max compression, you’re using too many slots.
that is obnoxious
Just use the ore better :) Not aluminum :)
It's other way around - now I can't use only high level ores and need to add 3000 aluminium to "stabilize" crafting.
Oh, you meant improving the quality :) You need to be more precise! :) My best result right now is two premium slots. 2 iron, 2*25 tin and 625 copper. I don't have enough stock for 125 tin yet. Very much not enough :)
Anyway, with bronze bar crafting taking 1h - I'm thinking about freezing Mine until it would be fixed.
First I need to stop progression and wait to accumulate granite for ~6 hours, but now after it I need to wait ~12 hours to craft bars just to return to the place where I was before prestige.
I always use crystals to do my crafting. It only costs 20 and they regenerate very fast. Also, there isn't much else to spend blue crystals on. So 20 for the best possible pick and only one of each ore used seems like a good deal to me.
so do i but you cant evne use crystals unles you have .1% now
Oh. I didn't notice this.
And I am confused by the new balance in the village. The stock of faith has been significantly increased, but the income has been reduced. The final income is about the same. But there is one "but". The stock has grown significantly! This means that the income from cryolab has also grown, which is calculated from the absolute value, and not from the speed. Total right now I'm doing what. With a reserve of 115k of faith and an income of 3 per second, I have accumulated almost 500k of faith in 2.5 days. I'll wait another 3-4 days, I'll save up 1kk. The income of faith falls slightly when overflowing. With a million faith, by running cryostasis, I will have 0.29*1kk=290k faith per day or 290k/86400=3.36 faith per second. That is, a frozen village will bring me more faith than a fully developed one without overflow. O_o! At the same time, even the pathetic third level of cryostasis, which will be typed in less than a day, will passively give me 1kk * 0.03 /86400 = 0.34 faith per second. And after waiting a couple more days (with an income exceeding my maximum current, I remind you), I will catch up to the fourth level, having received a passive income of 0.46 faith per second.
It's a lot, don't you think? No, I'm not complaining, but it looks like some kind of exploit.
Alright status update. Faith gain in village seems to be rather close to what it was before. Considering that you now are closer to your cap instead of pushing way beyond it I would say a clear improvement on that front. Resource gain on the other hand is just as bad as it seemed. Which begs the question wether or not this matters when you can still prestige in roughly the same manner. I would say yes it feels significantly worse. Though I guess before that it might have actually been a little bit to fast, as I was often confronted with the opposite problem I have now, namely too many resources. So after some time playing the update I would say that the village rebalance was warranted in some way (as painful as that is too admit) though that it's overshoot it's goal by quite a bit. For village it might actually be plant gain exclusively. Plants are such a brutal bottleneck atm that most other recourse production doesn't really matter. I have the full collection for the 1.5 plants modifier and it still takes me 2 days to build up enough plants for the gardener. Which would take 3 days without that.
The pace in the mine seems better now. Even with 1 hour bronze bars. You have more time to actually explore the features.
I think the farm also improved on lots of things. Especially when it comes to building up crops for specific things like gold gain or rare materials. Though the time increase is overdone same as the village.
So my still rather early verdict for this update. The slowness for village and farm isn't nearly as bad as it first seemed, though it isn't in a good place either. Other features and changes are good to very good.
How to fix Farm: delete it from the game and start over taking inspiration from Ethereal Farm. In its current form this feature will never feel good to play because it is based on manual harvest cycles. It needs to be a lot more passive.
Hmm. 1.4.0 changed the amount of experience passively received by the farm. Right now I have 80/d written. The update was installed 10-12 hours ago. Now I look, the potato has 4 experiences. How is it? Yes, it says "up to this amount", but somehow 8-10, as for me, this is very much different from the stated 80. By an order of magnitude. And this is taking into account that I did not prestige the potatoes yesterday, which means that before the update, she received something passively.
Unclear.
The xp gain is reduced the longer the timer is and the higher the gold cost is (it also was same way before the patch). your max level with a crop is also a factor and it seems like that if your crop is at the highest level it has ever been - you don't get any passive xp whatsoever (or extremly little, idk). However if you just prestiged a crop - it actually does climb up a couple of levels at a pretty decent pace. So previously everything gained exp constantly at the same rate but at an absolute snail's pace. Now it's a catching up mechanic for prestiged crops so that you don't have to start from 0. Though it would be nice to see actual xp gain for any individual crop since they're so drastically different from the number in the lab.
The description does not say anything about changing the speed depending on the level of culture. Yes, it does not make sense, since the amount of experience needed for the level itself is growing very quickly, which in total will provide the same drop in speed that you describe. Nevertheless, I want to note that over the next approximately 15 hours, my potatoes received 6 experiences, and 8 in a day. That is, literally an order of magnitude less than stated.
Notice, I'm not saying this is wrong. I'm saying it's not clear. How can I plan something on this mechanics if it works so unpredictably? Gives an unknown amount of experience with such a wild spread in speed during the day.
Note that the cryolab mechanics themselves work very differently for each tab. The mine has no overflow of crystals, so the maximum value for it is constant. And a passive increase of 2-4 percent to the growth rate will be an increase of 2-4 percent to the speed. The village and the horde have overflow, so just waiting once, say, 10 times longer, we can significantly increase the increase in speed. 3-4 times, which is much nicer. Well, the farm works like this. Gives it is unclear how much, all in different ways and at different speeds during the day. I don't know what will happen with the fifth tab, I haven't opened it yet :) And as a result, a cryolab working so differently looks a little strange. I will not say what is wrong, rather it requires special attention.
Please don't balance or design the game around what the top 1% of speed/efficiency players do. The game felt like it had a great pace, to me, and now it's a slog. I don't care what the spread-sheet writing optimization maximizers do, they'll figure out new ways to push the envelope regardless but meanwhile the game is just categorically slower and less fun for me and a lot of other players.
I also feel like progression between players will vary greatly between the different tabs. 1) spend red gems 2) RNG of treasures, cards and events. I for example got a huge unexpected boost a while back with a tier 2 fully upgraded veggie gain treasure from the merchant. Just I was starting my long journey towards the next crop needing veggies. Unexpectedly more than trippling my veggie gain (at that time) and subsequently immensly speeding up my farm game.
Which is to say, progress between players can and will vary sometimes dramatically. Though this isn't a bad thing and still player driven. I would like the rng to be a bit more predictable though. Just tell me what I will get when I purchase something (hint: I do that anyway with a little savescum scrying). Just saying what you get next doesnt fundamentally change the game and adds a layer of strategy.
I feel like these two points have been overlooked in regards to balance.
Due to how slowly gems are generated two players who have bought different red gem upgrades but have otherwise identical set ups will have vastly different progression and will take a long time to catch up, if they ever do.
Then you add the random factor, and all of these make an impact on your speed. Card set ups completely change progression for an entire prestige; which treasures and how many will obviously changes progression again; what you're able to buy from the merchant/bank is random; the entire Halloween event was random; presumably the entire Christmas event will be random. Even progression in the mines (pickaxes), horde (heirlooms) and farm (gold/rare drops) are random.
There are too many variables to be able to balance around a hypothetical "typical" player.
Unrelated to the update, but does anyone know what material is needed for Scanning in the Mining tab? It's still showing up as a question mark for me.
Edit: Looking at the save file, it might be something called Sticky Jar now?
My number 1 recommendation for any still being updated idle game - Please don't continue to update it in ways that drastically slow the game down. If you want more/longer term gameplay, add stuff on the back end rather than dragging out the front end. Coming online and seeing on Mining, I'm forever stuck halfway through an infinitely long cooldown because the rock became harder. My crops all have 10 times the grow time. Its already a struggle to pick between quick and long playthroughs but this is a devastating change.
My positive look at the new update - Farm Cards are cool.
I like the cost increase for mining. It is sensible and I like how it effects your choices.
Faith cap is a nice treat!
welp the changes to mining have made it impossible for me to even craft a new pickaxe
there goes my plans for beating the pitch black shadow quest
Alright, looking at this update with a closer lens makes it less bad. The key things to note are:
-Hordes didn't get changed
-The update for Mine was an upgrade (other than bar smelt time, although this shouldn't change too much), and should increase progression rate.
-Village is almost unaffected early-mid game as far as I can tell, and so this just encourages shorter resets to increase faith. Also faith production overall was increased, buffing this effect more. I think this one is a bit harsh for late-game production, but we don't know the reasons why it was reduced (No info on update log). Without knowing the reasons we can't judge how necessary it was. Although an explanation would be nice.
-All farm fertilizers now have the effect of Grow Time /2 and rare drop rates have increased. I think that the changes just make it so you don't use your sprinklers, and DNA gene upgrades with the buffs to gene bases should at the very least mostly compensate for the time increases. Also the 5min-30min grow times for crops didn't make sense for how the game works, and it should've been obvious it was going to be changed with a similar degree to Hordes. Also overgrow rework is nice, old system was a bit annoying
"How the game works"? I mean, its an active/idle game. Like Hordes has 20 second timers on some abilities, you play the active part to progress faster while the idle parts build up. Changing the game from actively playing daily to only being worth checking once a week or month is a HUGE change. Part of the reason I liked this game more than any other Idle game out there was it had a great balance of things to do while waiting for things to do, but now I've got nothing to do while waiting for EVERYTHING to do at once.
I don't understand the desire for the game to be even slower than it already is. I was at the point where prestiges were taking days, but you couldn't just leave it because you still needed to adjust things and buy upgrades. I was fine with that, for a "long term idle game" it meant I still needed to check every day, but it was pushing my limits. Now everything is slow and everything that boosts gain and speed is worse; it would appear that none of the costs have been updated to reflect the change in speed so progression has become outpaced by snails. I think I'm done
im fully expecting this game to get micro transactions soon this screams create a problem then sell a solution
Allright, so I know there's gonna be a lot of kneejerk reactions, cause getting nerfed/losing progress doesn't ever feel great. Many changes might feel out of place, even though if things were how they are currently from the get go - people wouldn't mind (as much). And I know that it can be disheartening reading through all that criticism while trying to make the game you want to make and putting in work (and for free no less). But, maaaaan, I just really got to put my 2 cents.
I'd really like you to reconsider the grow timers for the farm. Village materials losing 20-30% production, smeltery timers changing to x5 value, treasures getting nerfed - all those feel annoying but ultimately it just means that I have to check in those tabs less often, which I guess is the intent. The timers on some crops mean that I can go on a drunken blender, wake up in a neighbour city with a kidney missing, take a humiliating bus ride home - and my rice still won't be ready for harvest. I felt like 30 hours was already pushing it, even with the prenerf sprinkler cutting it in half. 72 hours is just baffling: it isn't just regular idle anymore, it's retirement home dementia idle.
Don't take it the wrong way - I think your game is pretty neat, I like it. I just also like the lizard brain dopamine injection I get from numbers going up after opening the game tab after a long period of absence. I just consider that period to be in line of coming home after work or waking up or just doing somehing else for a couple of hours. Not 3 days.
I don't know how far you are in village, but that 20-30% reduction is only for the base production of them. There are later upgrades to production for a lot of materials that got hit super hard, meaning plant fiber/wood/stone production is somewhere around 10% of what it was pre patch in the later game. (each of those is boosted by two upgrades that got changed from being multiplicative with themselves to additive, and those upgrades got hit to something like 33% of their previous effectiveness at max level). My gold income took around a 38% hit. I don't remember what glass/metal/hardwood/gems were at pre patch, but those got hit pretty significantly too.
And late game (around tier 4 buildings unlocked) in village already had material storage ballooning much much much faster than material production. And buildings unlock that need those large material storages to build.
I was under the impression that base production is the same and upgrades changing from multiplicative to addictive is what results in declared production loss. Atleast if you hover over farmer it still says that he gives you 2 base plant fiber just like it used to before patch (I think). And the timer to fill to full capacity seem to be in line with those numbers. I did also lose a ton of gold gain but I assume it has to do with merchant treasures getting nerfed (I have 2 of those). But might be I'm completely wrong, I haven't checked it in great detail.
Things in the village being at 10-20% of what they were before line up pretty well with me too. It is really really slow.
I was having fun with Gooboo before the 1.4.0 update - the pacing let me feel like I was making progress with each prestige, albeit gradually and slowly, but it was improving and speeding up little by little each time.
Unfortunately, the massive brakes put on progress in every main mechanic by update 1.4.0 have made the time gating so heavy and oppressive as to make the game feel - I'm not going to mince words here - boring, and unsatisfying.
Thanks for the time you've put into this, but I think I'm going to move on at this point.
i suspect the dev is about ot add mincrotransactions to this game
its fitting the pattern create a problem then sell a sollution
the update caused my progress on carrots to vanish i had them up to 14 levels over grow
ok what the hell why did you make everything SLOWER the game was already slow
Alrigth bronze bars taking 1 hour is revolting aswell.
i suspect the dev is about ot add mincrotransactions to this game
its fitting the pattern create a problem then sell a sollution
I understand you generally prefer the game to be more idle oriented and not punish people for not being active players, but the changes really feel like they swing things so far the other way. Crops take so long to level up now and I already felt like the overgrowth mechanic was a good compromise to make the relatively active focused early crops not that bad if you just check in once or twice a day, increasing the growth times for carrots from 5 minutes to 90 without really decreasing the experience costs for leveling up the crops just feels incredibly punishing, and the ability to reach overgrowth achievements feels utterly impossible.
The village changes also feel incredibly bad, especially for plant fiber where it was already the slowest resource to accumulate. I personally went from 35k/sec to 9k/sec for it and that means it takes a full day for it to hit cap which is enough to build a single building. This feels so miserable when so many absolutely crucial buildings already require high plant fiber amounts, it slows down making any kind of progress on the feature to a snails pace. Where it was it felt like it was at least balanced around like ~8 hour check ins which felt like a really good spot, at least in my opinion.
Part of the problem is stone and wood get boosted by certain jobs that give another resource and just give a whole ton of stone or wood as a side effect. While if there's an equivalent for plant fiber it's unlocked much later (I see one that might be it, but it's still quite a bit away, and it also costs plant fiber to build, compounding the issue).
The reductions to other resources in village are pretty bad too. Basically every resource boosting upgrade got changed from multiplicative to additive, on top of base production of resources being lowered.
There's also a pretty significant difference between early village and later village. I'm at tier 5 buildings unlocked and before patch my resets were at around 3 days and getting longer. I think part of it is that the faith upgrades for resources are multiplicative on storage but additive on production, so village is bound to slow down with progress anyway.
Yeah I have the building and it does give plant fiber production, but the lack of an equivalent to the early game tunnel/sawmill and then the secondary resource producer being so much later and costing plant fiber is rough, especially since its a much higher base cost than lumberjack/deep mine means you need a lot of storage to even start building them.
i suspect the dev is about ot add mincrotransactions to this game
its fitting the pattern create a problem then sell a sollution
I dont think this is the case, the dude is just creating the game he wants to play, which is a very idle focused one.
Yeah. Its just a shame. The whole draw of this game was the incredible active/idle balance, which let you play at your own pace. You gained a little by being always on, but not that much more than idling. Now, there's essentially little point to playing more than once a month.
Yeah, on hopping on for the day here and seeing the changes, I'm also inclined to agree with the other folks posting comments, the latest update pushed this way beyond the level of slow play I'd be willing to put up with. The farm especially is at a level where I don't think I'd be able to stomach even thinking about trying to make progress in it as of right now, it's just far, far too slow at this point.
i suspect the dev is about ot add mincrotransactions to this game
its fitting the pattern create a problem then sell a sollution
Have to agree with the other commenters. I am just very confused why you would make the game just slower, when it was slow anyways.
Edit: To give a bit more balanced feedback. The change to for farms in general I understand, having a crop be done in 5 minutes seems a bit against the pace of the game. Though having to wait literal days for one to finish is really tough. I do like the change to how overgrow works a lot though. Makes it way more clear and you can harvest at any time and gain benefits.
I do not undestand why the village had to be slowed down at all. I liked the pace of it a lot. I prestiged about 1 every 2 days. Lots of things already took a lot of time. Especially because you are capped by your recource cap and the build time of certain buildings.
Mine seems just slower but that might be countered through higher prestige, not sure on that one yet. I do get the minimum requirement. Even though I often used only 1 in every metal and then use the best pickaxe button it feels better and fairer that I have to use some recources for it.
Overall some good features and changes with the heavy negative of everything being slower.
Not a fan of the crafting quality rework for mining. Slowing down a process in an already slow game is weird.
Are you planning on monetizing this game or something, because so many of the big changes made just slow the game down, when it's hard enough as is.
EDIT: Just noticed the farming changes. Yikes. Why do some crops take over a full day to grow?!? What the actual fuck?!?
i suspect the dev is about ot add mincrotransactions to this game
its fitting the pattern create a problem then sell a sollution
So, with the changes to village, I think I'm done. I was already at around 3 day resets before the changes absolutely gutting resource income.
I'm looking at 19 hours for plant fiber to hit cap right now at 1/3 of cap, when I think it should have hit cap overnight. So, are we expected to what, build like 1 building a day?
The rework to the farm feature, at first glance, hurts. It is turning me off the game, honestly. Other 1.4 updates straight up nerfing gains makes me similarly frustrated.
I am very much not a fan of changes like this that slow the game down and make checking in even more sluggish than the feature already was. I will see how I feel after using it a while. I was unsure of the horde rework but am a big fan of it now.
Having harvests go from less than an hour to daily without much of an increase in EXP makes level progress extremely slow, and carrots going from 5m to 1h 30m (a 180x increase!) means I can say goodbye to my plans to grind for the 7x overgrow for a long time.
Why do I have Hay Bales when I don't have grass or the currency to upgrade it (Seed Level 8)? Also Note #9 still references sprinklers being a 2x speed while they're now a 1.1x :)
So I think there's some minor RNG issues in the card system right now. I've opened 10 or so 'Old Memories 'packs, and the last 6 have had the exact same 2 cards. This is like less than a one in a million at this point, so something's up. I really want to finish my Hordes card collection, but can't because every time I pull the same two cards ('Mushroom Guide' and 'Sawblade Launcher' in case you're wondering). Is there any plan for a RNG patch coming up soon?
Also this is like my favorite incremental game by far, don't think I dislike the game. It's my current favorite, and I love the gameplay (Hordes especially, the rework was good long-term) I'd just like to know how to fix my card pack to contain more cards.
I have to admit I was skeptical about the horde rework at first, but after playing it for a while (75 max zone now), I'm really loving it! It's a lot more idle than the previous version while still being active enough to play in real time if you want, and the progression feels solid and fairly rapid (although there was a plateau for me in the 50s, unsure if that's been retouched).
Agreed, the new horde is way nicer. Items also feel more important and switching them up for certain zones or bosses is quite nice.
Also if you dont mind me asking how does your progression on the other features look? I'm at mine: 100, Village: Just unlocked local government or I guess highest building amount of 464, Horde: 69, Farm: 40% towards Rice.
Just curious how others are doing. And if for some reason others lack behind in the mine at least going from the values in the cryo lab.
I'm at mine 100, village max 369, horde 75, and farm 1% towards watermelon. I've spent most of my red gems on horde - the ancient power and ancient spirit upgrades are REALLY strong (basically 3x attack and 3x soul gain respectively).
what are rare earth ores beside granite because i am stuck trying to figure out how to upgrade my iron expansion
Salt is also considered a “rare earth”
As far as I can tell it’s any mining resource with special requirements beyond depth
i found it far out, it was coal at depth 90
horde need to have auto advance option
Options-> Automation -> Autofight horde boss
Holy... thanks bro
Bug. Offering the reward in the casino unlocks the opportunity to sacrifice and buy offering upgrades even without a built offering pedestal.
Looks like you still have to build it before you can benefit from the offerings though, so probably not a huge issue.
You can always buy and sacrifice, but offerings don't add to storage until you've built the pedestal, and you can't sacrifice/upgrade a resource until you've bought the corresponding offering pedestal at least once.
My brain, whenever I buy anything in the Horde tab: "THE BONES ARE THEIR MONEEEEY, SO ARE THE WORMS"
What is seed hull?
Rare drop from Raspberry and Barley
Could we get a timer for how long an overgrown crop takes to finish?
Its so much fun when your save suddenly ceases to exist, after weeks of play!
Man, don't get me wrong, it does blow that this can happen - but this is precisely the reason why game keeps bugging you daily with notification to download backup.
What's wrong with the people of this village? :) Why do they store iron and gold in aquariums, and pour water into towers and obelisks? With this approach, they should live in warehouses and store wood in houses! However, they still live in the forges, so...
I think there might be a bug with the golden throne red gem upgrade for village. The multipliers for it go from 1 -> 1.5 -> 2 -> 3.5 -> 5.5 -> 8 -> 11, etc continuing in the pattern of incrementing the increase by .5x each upgrade thereafter. The only reason I think theres a bug is it seems like the second upgrade should take it from 1.5 to 2.5 given the pattern all the rest of the numbers have. It seems to skip over incrementing by 1 instead incrementing by .5 twice before going straight to 1.5.
The golden throne upgrade used to start at the x2 gold upgrade, and the 1.5x gold upgrade was put it at some point (along with some other cheaper upgrades) to be something for people to buy earlier with red gems.
Unfortunately, none of the costs of the original upgrades got reduced any, so although getting some benefit earlier is nice, it also just meant that someone buying to that upgrade power later has to spend more red gems overall.
So, I bought 3 treasures since returning to the game, and all 3 were a tier 2 treasure giving a bonus to grain gain. Either there's something wrong with the rng seed saving or I just got what I think is a ridiculously unlikely result.
a way to get more than 1 corrupted flesh at a time would be very nice
There is, Heirlooms from level 60 onwards. And they are very nice.
oh goody they give .03
thats worthless
It's a lot easier to get lots of heirlooms now; I started hitting level 60 a few days ago and I already have 38 of those, giving me +1.14 flesh/s. It's really pretty good and grows decently fast.
thats really not good no as you needs tons of flesh to counter the buff
Perhaps this game just isn’t for you? Based on all of your comments it really doesn’t sound like a long-term idle game is what you’re looking for.
Stick with it, there's optons ahead for that.